Vaccinations

Any Divine Truth related question relating to the teachings of Jesus & Mary
Abram
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Vaccinations

Post by Abram » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:10 pm

Does anyone know of Jesus and Mary’s perspective about vaccinations for our children? I imagine that if the parents and children are at one with God then there is no need. However, when we are not one with God is vaccinating our children a good idea? As parents I know we need to work through our fears of our children getting sick, though is there other things we can do?

With love,

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Teresa French
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Teresa French » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:11 am

Hi Abram,

This is a subject I have been interested in (I have pretty strong feelings on it in truth), so have been interested to hear Jesus' viewpoint. I don't remember taking note of Mary's viewpoint on the subject, I notice. Something there for me to reflect on.

I don't know if Jesus has actually stated his opinion or viewpoint on the subject in a seminar/talk, but I do believe I recall (not 100% certain as I am becoming more aware of how filtered my memory and perception really is) that he does not feel vaccinations are necessary. ... Writing that, I am uncertain, but I think that is more about my own fear of making the mistake of perhaps putting words in his mouth.

If you wish to hear my own experiences with this, I am happy to share them.

cheers
Teresa

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Teresa French
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Teresa French » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:18 am

ah, rereading what I wrote again, it feels to me that I am demanding that you ask me for my personal opinion. I am sorry about that, Abram, thank you for the opportunity to see that.

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Amanda Stracey
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Amanda Stracey » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:16 pm

There is a question asked about vaccinations in this talk at around the 2 hrs 4 mins mark or at section 5.5 in the transcript

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/269059

Abram
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Abram » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:35 pm

Amanda and Teresa,

Thanks for the feedback. I read the information about vaccinations and it makes sense regarding not doing things to others/children that we wouldn't want done to us. Then the issue is about feeling the need to make decisions for ourself or others out of fear. This material is a good reminder about our resistance to feeling our feelings and instead finding ways to avoid those feelings (I.e., vaccinations, etc.).

I get that we must feel our fear in all situations and not make decisions to avoid our fear, however in certain medical and life or death situations we may need to make decisions to avoid death on earth of ourself or loved ones, right? I know we don't ultimately die, but if my daughter gets into a car accident and needs surgery to save her life on earth I dont think Jesus would say just to feel my fear and to avoid the surgery, right? I know this question is still out of my fear and maybe by feeling the fear about these things I would ultimately avoid having to ever make these decisions, though if I hadn't yet worked through my fear and this event happened I wonder what the most loving decision would be?

Thanks again.

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Eloisa
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Eloisa » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:06 am

**** EDIT 20160111****

Hi Everyone,

I have just received personal feedback from Jesus and Mary regarding my own injuries and how they have been impacting on my role as Forum Admin and the post I have made here to Abram is totally wrong and unfounded.

Abram I see what I have done is wrong, but I have yet to feel the real reasons why I chose to take the action I did.

I have left the post up as an example of taking an action totally out of harmony with Love. More details will be added on the forum in the next days/week.

Please also note I mention Teresa is acting in an addiction but the addiction I mention is actually not the correct addiction.

The direct feedback that all of us as Forum Admin have received from Jesus and Mary will be made public in the next days/week. So you will be able to see why I have added this note and what was REALLY going on for me when I wrote the below to Abram and Teresa.

The forum was set up as an opportunity to learn about love and Forum Admin will be embracing that opportunity and will be transparent about that process with you.

I have yet to feel the reasons why I chose to take the actions I did here towards Abram and I am sad that I have harmed rather than helped.

My sincere repentance has yet to be felt.

Thanks

Eloisa


* * * * * * * * * *



Hi Guys,

Abram, you raise an interesting question in regards to vaccinations and something that is a ‘hot topic’ in Australia at this time. I feel that the question itself is a good one and I would like to add some thoughts and experiences in the near future.

At this time I would like to address some feelings that come through in your posts in general and particularly in this post.

I feel you are acting out of some addictions and co-dependence of wanting your fears to be alleviated. Women in general are responding to this demand which is interesting and I feel by the responses that there is a feeling of wanting women to ‘help’ and give you suggestions ’ or ‘save’ you and some of them are entering a co-dependent addiction with you.

I have had to question my own motivations for writing to you, when you have had so many others already try and ‘help’ you and you have chosen to not follow through with those suggestions sincerely (feeling your feelings about _______ given topic (insert in the gap)).

Nicky brought up an addiction with you some time ago about procrastinating about feeling your feelings and avoiding going through the feeling process which is the only way you are going to know God’s Truth on any matter.

Link to Nicky’s feedback at the following thread:

http://forum.divinetruthhub.com/viewtop ... lkes#p1355

I feel this addiction is part of the reason why you have posted this particular question also which is highlighted by the interaction with Amanda & Teresa who I feel are acting out a co-dependant addiction with you.

Teresa your response in particular stands out as an addiction due to posting without actually having a real answer. You even state you don’t know. It would be more loving to actually investigate and find out the truth rather than making suggestions that you even say yourself you are unclear about and you do not know the reasons why.

Secondly, your question beautifully highlights the addiction Nicky first pointed out to you Abram.

You say:
As parents I know we need to work through our fears of our children getting sick, though is there other things we can do?
Which indicates that even though you say you know, that from a soul perspective you do not actually KNOW - yet - that you need to work through your fears (emotions) in order to ‘protect’ your children, otherwise you would trust God, God’s process and do it with all your heart. You can know this as the Truth, but it is going to take some courage and you to sincerely engage the process God created.

At the moment this is just an intellectual idea and I suggest it would be better to be really honest with yourself about how afraid you are about your emotions and that you feel that the emotional processing doesn’t work and that you personally need to DO something in order to keep your family ‘safe’ which is a lot about self reliance and avoiding your own fears. I feel when you sincerely face this fear and work through it, you will be much happier and less worried.

You have been given quite a few suggestions and feedback on this forum on things you can do, such as by Nicky (see below links).

http://forum.divinetruthhub.com/viewtop ... lkes#p1465

http://forum.divinetruthhub.com/viewtop ... lkes#p1377

I suggest until you actually give your self the opportunity to feel, that you will not know the truth. I am finding that I must experience my feelings and desire God’s Truth in order to know any Truth for certain. This is how God has designed it - personal soul experience. And it is a beautiful design.

All the best,

Eloisa

P.S. I noticed that once you had more information on the issue that it helped - the Truth always does, :)

It is always great to investigate what God's Truth is on any matter. At the same time we need to feel in order to release our feelings about how we feel about the issue/s, this is essential in order to accept God's Truth in our own soul. You need to feel how you feel, your fear of death and 'bad things happening' as mentioned in the second paragraph of your latest post, demonstrates that you do not yet have God's Truth in your heart else you would not be afraid and you would KNOW the most loving thing to do under any particular circumstance you face.

Your questions are indicating the perfect place to begin your emotional experience.

Abram
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Abram » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Thanks Eloisa for the feedback,

The truth hurts. I’m really frustrated and angry that I’m not seeing results. I have very little if no faith in this process or in God. It is apparent. When receiving feedback from Nicky and others previously about needing to feel more about things and focus on a relationship with God, I feel I did exhibit more of a sincere desire and effort to process emotionally and to include God in that process, though obviously not enough or about the right things. I’ve allowed myself to feel about (sob) a number of times regarding my fear of death both for myself and my family, though my law of attraction is still giving me feedback that I haven’t really dealt with the causal emotions. Now I’m in this place where I feel I must not know how to do it, it doesn’t work, or I won’t ever get there. As such I felt it best to ask for guidance about certain decisions related to my children’s health and wellbeing thinking this is a more loving thing to do until I can have faith in God or in this process or in my ability to make this work.

I’ve recently been trying to have a relationship with God by praying more often, spending more time learning about how to, and looking for and feeling about my own blocks (I still have a lot to feel about). Recently I’ve realized I have been using my will power and not my will to do this. It seems like the truth is that I’m not doing it right (i.e., not emotionally processing enough or about the right things) and I haven't truly been sincere. My recent increased desire and effort to have a relationship with God and to process emotionally doesn't appear to be resulting in much of any changes in my life and I was thinking that it would and now wonder what it really means to be sincere. I can see why people give up on this process as it requires so much determination, courage, persistence, among other things.

I woke up in the middle of the night before receiving your feedback and all I could think about was all the areas of my life that my law of attraction has shown me I have not dealt with. I asked God to show me what my blocks are to a relationship with him/her (hearing this is most important and thinking that having God help me with the emotional processing will result in some real changes) and then read your feedback about 30 minutes later. It's pretty obvious at this point that I have no faith, I’m unwilling to do the emotional processing necessary, I don’t think it works or I can do it, I feel God doesn’t care about me, and I’m really not even sure I believe God exists at a soul level. I feel disheartened by this truth, though realize that this truth is a gift and I am becoming clearer as to where I am and know that until I know this I really cannot move forward.


I appreciate you helping me face these truths.

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Lena
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Lena » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:43 pm

Hi Abram,

I thought I'd share a quick observation from reading some of your posts.
I just would like to add to what Nicky and Eloisa and other have already stated about a general feeling that is present in most of your posts.

This feeling is also present in your last response to Eloisa, where I feel like you have actually gone again into the same addictive space you often find yourself in.
This space feels resistive and actually insincere. I can see that it is the same thing which Nicky and Eloisa have already pointed out to you.

You say many self reflective things in your post, however it still feels to me that you just wish to complain about having to feel anything, I wonder if you can connect to that feeling and feel it, of just wanting to complain?

I personally find this feeling very addictive and more like a tantrum. The only way to connect to it, is to stop acting it out with convincing myself with stories which I want to believe, such as "this is too hard" "i don't think i can do it" "there must be another way" "God's way is not such an awesome way" "I so do not trust God".... But instead I have to connect to each one of them and really feel them,a s they aren't true statements but are products of fears.

I feel it is impossible to hear or receive any feedback while you are in this place of complaining and resisting.

Whenever I find myself in this place, I realise that it is pretty pointless to ask people for more help, as I am not in a position of wanting to engage and I would just be wasting their time.

Perhaps other admins can add to this more of they have a moment.

Lena

Elvira
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Elvira » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:39 am

Hi All,

I really appreciate the wonderful demonstrations in love and humility from Nicky, Lena and Eloisa in addressing their errors in issuing strikes as has happened here. I would like to go back to the question of vaccinations and share my experience because it highlights the issues of self reliance, lack of faith in God and God's laws and how we really can't avoid them through avoiding acting to placate our fears. Abram I feel like my experience also highlights how our blocks to God come from places where we might not expect to find them.

This is a subject which has tortured me a lot. It is a very hot topic in Australia with the government using co-ersive tactics to push parents to immunize their children. I feel there are huge addictions in both sides of the arguement because the pro and anti vaccers get so angry. I don't think I revealed much about myself in my intro but I have decided to do that through issues as they come up on the forum. On the whole I have wanted to blank out wanting to look at anything to do with vaccinations (often through anger) because there is so much in it for me and what I have been finding is that it goes beyond the fear of sickness and dying. I want to say also that I have not felt on this issue to the causal level just felt some layers so what I say needs to be read with that in mind.

Abram's post triggered me again on this topic and what I have been finding when I picture my experiences with vaccinations is that I am having to go to them time and again because there are so many different fears wrapped up in it.

A vaccination at age eleven caused me to pass out about twenty minutes later and another vaccination at age fifteen left me with a swollen arm and festering wound for several weeks. My first son was born five weeks early and I felt very anxious (afraid) about vaccinating him because his little body had already been through so much, I called his pediatrician and off I trotted to have him vaccinated. He had a violently bad reaction. He screamed non stop, not opening his eyes or feeding, I really thought he was permanently damaged until the next morning when he opened his eyes and I could see he was back. After all that I went back to have his next shot, when I arrived at the center I started to shake and cry uncontrollably and this was at a time when I barely cried privately let alone in public. A nurse came rushing to the door and took my son from me. I have heard Jesus say many times that we really do know when things aren't loving, and I have very often felt that to not be true because I could think of situations where I was being unloving and I really thought I was doing the right thing and I still haven't worked that out fully; but I think taking my son back to be vaccinated again shows how much I was totally ignoring how very loudly my soul was screaming at me that this was not a loving action. Why did I ignore my own feelings? So many fears wrapped up in that, including, I was afraid of being labelled a bad mother (partly because I already knew I was), I was afraid of my son getting sick (remarkably I don't think I even knew what some of the diseases he was being vaccinated against even were).

In vaccinating because we are afraid of our children getting sick we are trying to avoid God's law of attraction and rely on ourselves to control the outcome. I know looking back now that maybe our children won't get the diseases we vaccinate against but in my case what I was afraid of has manifested with other illnesses and in the reactions to the vaccinations themselves which I feel have actually caused long term damage (my sons both have auto immune diseases) all because I wasn't willing to feel my fear. My second son had less severe but more prolonged reactions and was 'accidentally' given the wrong shot (the whooping cough component which caused the worst reactions was removed at that time with babies who had bad reactions) and he also got a case of measles from the vaccination. The law of attraction now seems pretty clear, at the time I was so caught up in my fear I was operating in a robotic state where I just survived one crisis after another.

Wrapped up in the whole thing as well, what I am beginning to understand is how afraid I was to challenge authority and how much I felt compelled to do what society expected (not fitting in, ostracism, rejection) and how much I have not been willing to trust my own feelings or abdicate them whenever another addiction was challenged. That played out in so many situations in my parenting where I knew something was wrong but convinced myself otherwise because of my fear of confronting pressure from other people.

The vaccination story continued. I got really sick with some sort of bug that literally rendered me totally helpless, it took everything I had to get myself to the couch so that I could hear what my three and one year old were up to, they had to fend for themselves, my mother and husband acted like it wasn't happening (those are long and complicated stories) and no matter how angry I have been about the situation, I have touched on the fear and backed away to revisit it time and again. It took months to recover and when I did, I got a flu shot because I couldn't bear to feel so helpless and alone again. Within twenty minutes my arm swelled like a balloon and I got a full on flu which developed into pneumonia and pleuresy, it went on for months and I have never really recovered. What I was afraid of and seeking to avoid was bought to me by the mechanism I sought to control the situation to avoid my fear.

I wonder how much fear we avoid through vaccinating our children which allows us to continue harming them with our fear? In the end the really big issues wrapped up in vaccinations for me are wanting to be self reliant because I feel like no one will ever be there for me, most particularly when I am being hurt or hurting. It has continued to be a significant causal which blocks me from God because I don't feel like s/he has been there for me when I was being hurt.

All my best Elvira

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Eloisa
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Re: Vaccinations

Post by Eloisa » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:23 am

Hi Abram

I just wanted to apologise for treating you harshly and acting in a way that was hypocritical on my part.

I thought I would share what I can see at this time and as I become more aware I will share that also.

To be honest when I read your posts and the questions you are asking and exploring there are so many similarities to myself particularly in regards to the fears and wonderings you have in regards to your kids and family.

The feedback I gave in regards to the vaccinations post about feeling your fears and sincerely feeling your feelings when they come up applies to myself. I feel that as well as being wrong with the addiction I attributed to you in this particular thread, it was the feelings that were coming out of me that are the problem with my response - harsh and attacking which is how I treat myself and sadly I treat those who are like me in a similar way when I do not own and feel my own emotions first. This really saddens me as I know how bad it feels to be treated harshly and finding myself doing the same thing when it was totally unwarranted was a pretty big eye-opener.

When I gave you the feedback and the initial strike I feel I was being harsh upon you as I am with myself. There was a heap of stuff going on in my life personally and instead of being humble to it and feeling through it I took it out upon you. This was not humble nor loving.

The question you asked about vaccinations had none of what I mentioned to you in it. You asked a question that was valid and I would actually be really interested in knowing what love would do in this situation.

I feel it shows how when I don’t own and heal my own emotional injuries that I then treat others badly, which ironically I gave feedback to Pierre about a few weeks ago. Goes to show that often what I write is the exact advice I need to take myself.

http://forum.divinetruthhub.com/viewtop ... 5&start=10

In the feedback Jesus and Mary gave me it was pointed out to me that I cannot feel men accurately yet. I have so many blocks to men and I don’t feel men at all yet. Often I feel ‘something’ but often I don’t accurately know what I am feeling at this time which is causing me quite a few problems personally.

I feel that it is great to ask questions to explore things and discover God’s Truth, in fact it has been Jesus and Mary’s patience and generosity in answering my questions that has helped me to grow and realise everything I have so far. Also God’s way of answering questions though the Law of Attraction is super awesome and worth experimenting with.

I feel that you do have some addictions with women - but it is in other posts and I have no clear idea about what they are so I cannot help you with these, you mentioned that you are beginning to notice and see some of these which is great. I also know I have heaps of addictions with men and women and I would be hypocritical to say otherwise. I am only just opening up to feeling some of my own addictions and I haven’t been through one in it’s entirety yet, so I am not yet knowledgable of ‘how to’ successfully.

Thanks for your message earlier in the week, I am glad you feel like you have seen things more clearly and feel more positive. I hope you keep going and if it gets ‘hard’ at any point remember all the things that have happened that have been positive, these are the faith builders and I use them often to remind myself in my ‘dark’ times that experimenting with God’s Way always has positive results.

I know that the more truthful I am and the less ‘harsh’ I am with myself (which happens when i am owning or feeling how I really feel) the better my life becomes. The Truth does set you free, and I encourage you keep exploring and discovering!

I have found becoming more honest with how I REALLY feel about things has been really helpful.

Again I apologise for treating you badly Abram. We really want this forum to be a place that encourages those who are sincere to explore more and be a place where we can express ourselves openly without the fear of being ‘punished’ for learning and being more of our real selves.

I wish you all the best discovering more and I look forward to interacting with you more in the future via the forum. I feel there is the potential for some really great parenting discussions on here and opportunities to experiment and find out more!

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